O-Hat 9/9/06

[Crumb]

We will have our first linkshell event saturday September 9th at 1PM EST (10AM PST). It will be an Ohat run for our many members in need of one (lv70 all jobs Acc+10 Racc+10 Eva+10). No big money drops so any drops we get will be free lots to anyone not recieving an Ohat that day. You will need to have your eye cluster before that time, so anyone in need may want to get together with linkshell members to farm eyes.
ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?fitem=3195

We will need 2-3 tanks, 2-3 stunners and 2-3 healers for Hakutaku. Melees can work together for skill chains and killing adds that pop up around the area. You'll need sneak and invis to get to the pop area so come prepared to sneak and invis yourself, it's not a place you can rely on party members for that.
ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/bestiary.html?fmob=1738

[Crumb]

Here's the breakdown of who was at O-Hat run #1. You recieved 2 points for each kill you were at, I gave everyone at the first fight, wipe, 1 point, that's represented by *.

Crumb x4*
Jglluamesh x4*
Darksidenetwork x4*
Stilgar x4*
Cleos x4*
Hakaipankeiki x4*
Ichigopankeiki x4*
Silverwolf x4*
Ikonic x4*
Valhallodin x4*
Krimzon x4*
Doony x4*
Jinxkat x4
Kendro x3*
Mishima x2*
Allybaba x2

Thanks Everyone for showing up. I'm sorry to those of you that didn't get to pop Haku, but we were a little slow getting started and we had been there for five hours. Thursday at our next run you will all get your hats.

[Nessus]

Okay I'm not part of this, and hence do not care. However if you are wondering where the confusion is coming from it's probably this:

Here is the list of points you will recieve for each event. As we add new NMs for events the list will grow.

O-Hat Run: 2pts/pop
ZM/CoP Missions: 1pt/fight (helpers only)

First event mis-wording shouldn't be too much of an issue, but thought I'd point it out in case you were curious.

[Crumb]

Thanks nessus, Jg brought it to my attention. Didn't expect to lose any fights so i just put /pop. It's been changed to /kill.

[Allybaba]

I am not sure where to post this so I guess here is as good as anywhere.

I am pretty unhappy with the way the lotting has been handled on BOTH runs, I think it has been adjusted to suit how ever Crumb wants to see things work out, on the fly. There is nothing in the rules that stated if i show up late to a Ohat run, that I cannot lot until everyone else that has been there gets their O hat first. That was unfair to me to be arbitrarily disqualified on the day of the event. I didn't log in, on a day I dont normally play just to help, I came because I need an Ohat. I may not have got one, but to be singled out because I had to go to WORK, and didn't get home until after the event started was BS.

Secondly, last night the low lot/high lot rule was changed after lots had been cast as far as I could tell, I sure knew nothing of the change. Even after that was changed, the it was also decided randomly that today if you are not level 70 even if you win the lot you must concede your lot to the next highest lot with level 70 + (Stilgar). Also BS. We either need to follow the rules, or not have them. I dont feel like I want to stay in this shell if this is how things are going to be run. I am really upset about the last 2 runs and feel like it has been pretty mismanaged. If there are going to be rules they should be uniform and applied ALWAYS. On the Saturday run Cleos got to get his O hat at level 68. but on Thurs that was too low to go until the 70s got theirs....


Ally

[Valhallodin]

I cannot speak for last night's run, because I was unable to attend because I had Finite Element Analysis homework to do.

However, as for your not being allowed to lot for it on the first run, I think that it absolutely fair. What would have been unfair would have been to let you get yours when other people, who had been there the whole time, did not get to get theirs. If we had been able to get all the runs done, then of course you would have gotten to get yours too. But when we are stuck doing a limited number of runs, it is only fair that those people who were there the whole time have first priority. Otherwise, why would anyone show up on time for anything when they can just be late and still get what they want? I'm not saying it is your fault that you were late. You had to work and I understand that. But the fact remains, you were not there for as long as the other people, and it wouldn't have been fair to them.

Like I said, I cannot speak for last night, because I don't really know the full story. So, I don't have any input about that. However, I do feel the way it was run the first time was fair.

[Allybaba]

Why, because while it may be more fair to those who have been there tho whole time, that was NOT said before hand, I would have not logged on at all had I know I wasnt going to get a chance to get the item. Aside from that a lv 68 player did win the final lot, so all those who were high enough that spent all night still got the shaft. The stated rules were lot for a turn to trade the item, if there were to be other provisions, they should have been stated. So yeah, no point in attending any functions unless I put my RL on hold for the LS, otherwise I guess I can take it in the rear for not always being avail at the start times. How about all those folks that didnt bother to show up last night? Or those that came late? I had been up for 16 hours by the time the event on Thurs was scheduled to begin. I was there on time even tho I could barely keep my eyes open. We didnt start until 2 hours later, because people put other shit ahead of the function. Anyway, I better stop before I say something I will regret..

Ally

[Crumb]

First off, u did get to random 1 of the 2 fights u were at in the first run. Don't put the blame on my planning. I'm getting next to nothing from this linkshell, i was trying to put something together so you guys could have a chance at gear and experiences you wouldn't wouldn't get otherwise. You can complain, but I'm sure 99% of the people you would ask would agree that it wouldn't have been fair for you to come at the end of run and get a hat before ppl there for 4 hours. Technically, the rule says ppl with the most points would pop first. Everyone who was at the run before u got there had already added up 5 points, therefore had more points than you did, so yes it did follow the rules. As for last night, wow you missed out on losing your orb, i'm sorry. If you're not happy, go find someone else to help you ally.

[Allybaba]

I guess I will with an attitude like that, I am not unhappy that I didnt lose my orb, but that doesnt change the way things went down, would your tune be different had we won the fight? I dont see how that makes any difference...

[Crumb]

Ally I was going to let u random in the first run. 4 other people, only one of which was randoming, gave me their opinion that it wasn't fair that the people who were there the whole time missed out while you got one only being there one pop. I'd be willing to bet that if u asked 10 random people in the game about the situation, they would side with me on it. You're upset you didn't get a hat and I'm sorry. If you had gotten a hat last night, you wouldn't have a problem about the first run.

[Hakaipankeiki]

Almost everyone at the first run got up early and gathered together at 10am PST... we rarely get up that early especially since Ichigo works at night, so I'm sure we weren't the only ones to change our schedule just to show up on time. We were there many hours before you got there, and I'm sure if you'd gotten your hat over the others that had been there all day I'd say they'd have more reason to complain. And actually, most of the people that got their hats on the first run did show up to help on the next run so I was pretty happy to see that kind of solidarity. After all, they got what they wanted and still showed up only to help the three of us.

I didn't have a problem giving up my turn to Stilgar, I do think he deserves a hat before me, not only can he use it with 2 jobs already but I would say his level of contribution is higher. I would have felt bad if it HAD been successful and I had walked off with a hat in place of him. I also wouldn't be opposed to asking people to donate a reasonable amount to compensate Stilgar's loss of his cluster, which I think can be attributed to lack of participation and organization. Cleos and I were probably the only ones voicing dissent about the last run's lack of people, but everyone was urged to go through with it anyway. We had 18+ people on the first run, plenty of healers including a healer outside the alliance, and in the second run there were only 11 people and a lack of healers. Regardless of Hakutaku popping off 2 Firaga III's within 20 seconds (mine and Ally's stun timers weren't up for the second), it still would have beaten us on endurance. Also, during the first run there was a bit of talk about strategy, and parties were reorganized before the fighting began, but the second time it was like we just ran in head first without reorganizing or discussing strategy beforehand. I think the overall success of the first run gave us an inflated sense of confidence and led to a lack of preparation during the second run.

Next time we'll need as much preparation and organization as the first run. It was a mistake to take chances with a less-than-optimal set-up when someone's hard-earned gil was on the line. I can't help Stilgar farm eyes but if the LS decides to have a collection plate to make up for that very hasty and unorganized run I wouldn't be against donating some of my own gil toward Stilgar's cluster. If a lot of people were to donate a reasonable amount, say 50K, it would make up for that loss. What's more important than squabbling over trivialities in rules is showing solidarity and being willing to sacrifice. After all, a majority of the people helping on the runs weren't getting anything in return, and they dedicated hours of their time to the cause. I may not have my hat, but I helped 4 people get theirs by stopping many Firaga III's Hakutaku attempted to cast. As long as those people are willing to return the favor, it all works out in the end.

[Ikonic]

allybaba said:

I am pretty unhappy with the way the lotting has been handled on BOTH runs

Since you came late in the event I think it's totally fair that those who had been there from the start should get their O-Hat before you. It doesn't matter why you were late, but that you were late. The rest of the people wanting to get an O-Hat had been there from the start and had been helping the whole day.

I do disagree with the relotting before each trade. I feel the most fair way to have handled it would have been to lot at the beginning and go in that order from start to finish. If those who have been there from the start all get their O-Hat, then those who show up late can have their chance.

As for the lvl requirement, I feel that it is a valid comment and that we should have it so those who can use the item right away have preference over those who cannot yet.

allybaba said:

We either need to follow the rules, or not have them.

This is a new LS. The rules aren't set yet. With any new venture the bugs have to be worked out. We will look at the current rules and how things are handled and change them to make them best for the LS. Voicing your concerns is the only way for us to know about them and correct any issues that there may be.

allybaba said:

I would have not logged on at all had I know I wasn't going to get a chance to get the item.

So, if you can't get something or have a chance to get something screw everyone else? How many of us helped on one or both of the runs for absolutely no reward? How many of us came and gave our time and effort to the event for nothing in return? What about the failed runs and those who lost clusters?

I know that I personally went on 2-3 hours of sleep for that day just so I could help others get their O-Hats. I spent money on tools and medicines for others. I spent time that I could have been sleeping or meriting or any number of other things. I helped what I could just because I know that if I don't then it's not fair later when I will need help and because without those who are there to help the event will fail.

Honestly, if this is going to be your attitude and you're going to be in it for you and only you then we don't need you. Crumb started this to help members of the LS. He needs almost (if not entirely) nothing of the drops that we are getting. Maybe it's time for you to reevaluate what you want and if you're willing to help anyone at all.

hakaipankeiki said:

As long as those people are willing to return the favor, it all works out in the end.

Exactly. A LS like this cannot survive if people are not willing to help others.

[Allybaba]

meh it has nothing to do with me having an attitude that I am out for myself. we are on at diff times
Ik so you dont know but I help peaople plenty with no desire for reward. MY point is that the weekends are times I spend with my RL family, and Im sorry but yes they are more important than just hopping on to only help. I got on to have a shot at an item I cannot get by myself, with the expectations that I would have that chance. If like you say , it wasnt fair for me to come late and lot, then I should not have been able to lot at all. I would have like to have know the facts before pissing off my GF and losing time spent with my son for nothing. If it was on any other day of the week, i wouldnt be making that argument. as i play usually mon-fri. I dont care that I didnt get the Hat, its not what I am upset about, its just that ithe process for getting one seems to have been changed after I show up each time. I ll have the hat sooner or later and could care less if I get it now or 6 mos from now.... anyway if the big runs are gonna be on weekends perhaps ill just bow out bc Ill never be able to make it full time anyway..

[Allybaba]

on a seperate note, id be more than happy to donate to a Stilgar fund. I dont have lots of play time but if im on and free I would help him farm too.

[Ikonic]

allybaba said:

I dont care that I didnt get the Hat, its not what I am upset about, its just that ithe process for getting one seems to have been changed after I show up each time.

As with any new organization it'll take time to get everything sorted out.

One reason I think the lotting rules may have changed is because it was asked on the forum what people thought about them and many agreed that if you could use the item currently then you'd get priority over those who could not.

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I think what we really need to do is have a LS meeting and hammer out all the rules and who the sacks are.