Odin Lotting

[Crumb]

We weren't really prepared for figuring out lots for odin so I think we should come up with a strategy to deal with this in the future. I think based on today, Aleve should get next Wbody uncontested for whatever he bid today, and same for whoever was winning bidder for Abody, and I'm pretty sure Dae bid 30p for Dfeet, so he should probably get next pair for 30p. Here's a couple ideas I had for deciding lotters, I also think it would be good to list people's points before run so they don't send a tell saying "all my points" causing Ik to look them up which i suspect happened.

1. Have 1 person assigned to be the /tell person for each drop, for example "send ik your bid if you want the first item in pool", "send xxx you bid if you want the second item in pool", "send xxx your bid if you want the third item in pool", etc.

2. Do the bidding before run, for the HQ items which in my opinion would be all the bodies, Nlegs and the odin armor/weapons. Maybe missing something but that seems like the majority of the desired items. This would alteast narrow down the items we'd need to figure out after the kill.

3. Have an open bidding system like we use for hanmls now with maybe 2>4>6>8>10>12>etc as incriments although doing like 5>10>15>20>etc would be quicker and allow more people a chance at lotting things. This would allow multiple people to see bids and Ik wouldn't be the only person having to make sure people aren't lieing on their bids or using more points than they have.

That's all i came up with off the top of my head tonight, reply if anyone else has some other ideas, maybe we can do a vote before the next odin?

[Daemonarche]

Regardless of the procedure, I think that the process has to be done ahead of time before the drops happen and the run starts.
Drops only stay in the pool for 5 minutes and it would be hard for one/multiple people to sort out the bids in time.
If the bidding system were to continue, I also think that there should be a back-up bid done at the same time for a second item. This would be only for people who wanted at least 2 of the drops ahead of time and if they lost their bid on their first item.
Those are my thoughts.

Oh and C, I bid 40 points on D. Feet...I don't know how Hykiri got them. They must've auto-dropped to him or something. Oh well, there is always next time.

[Ikonic]

The problem I had was looking up points to see who should lot. I wrote a script to handle that and am prepared for next time. However, I think splitting up bids to a couple people might be easier as long as those people have the points list up and people honestly only bid for pieces they can equip (don't think this was a problem, but still need people to be honest).

As for bids I never got a /tell from Daemonarche, but if Crunch did I'll take his word for it. I did have a couple people send me multiple /tells that weren't bids and it wasted time/concentration. Also had one person bid way way higher than the points he actually had. I also had some bids come really late in the 5 minutes.

Here's a List of the bids. I do think that the highest bid should get the item next time it drops.

Current Points	Member	Bid	Item	Actual Bid
35	Arcanum	35	a.body	35
30	Ziggyy	all	a.body	30
27	Yanxia	150	a.body	27
21	Choasbringer	all	a.body	21
21	Choasbringer	21	a.body	21
40	Eotfofyl	20	a.body	20
14	Gilgamish	all	a.body	14
11	Ermak	all	a.body	11
9	Orcsbane	9	a.body	9
6	Mizuhito	5	a.body	5
26	Aprophus	30	h.head	26
33	Crunch	2	h.head	2
20	Jglluamesh	1	h.head	1
47	Aleve	all	w.body	47
33	Hykiri	33	w.body	33
33	Crunch	2	w.body	2

I don't see a need to do any bidding before the run as long as those taking bids have the points list up. My main issue was looking up points, but since that's sorted now I shouldn't have an issue with handling bids in the future.

[Ikonic]

Also, I think we need to limit it to 1 /tell per person during bid phase (or 1 per item) as I had quite a few /tells that told me the exact same thing (and hence confused me to what they were bidding) or that told me both "all" and a points value.

Also, need people to not ask about the rules during a bidding time when they should already know the rules and have asked any questions they had about them long before that point.

[JG!]

I think that bids should be in linkshell chat with a cut off time of 3min after items hit the pool. leaving 2min for lotters to be sorted out. I think a bid of all should not be valid.

I bet people got excited at opportunity to get items they wanted and started spamming /tells to you... I know if a item dropped I wanted id /tell you like 3x to make sure you got it.

I dont really think bids in /tell will work... wait to items drop that people really want (ebody, valhalla gear) ur gonna get like 30+ tells or more if multiple good items drop...

[Aleve]

I'm an opportunist, I tend to take things as they come. I never had a number 1 Odin drop and I still don't. Sure I want Z feet and body, I also want W. body and head. I'm hoping that this bidding system is like we have in Salvage or an "E-bay style bidding".

I did not realize that an "all in" bid would be frowned upon or delay or even confuse the lot calling, as I have seen this type of bidding a few times recently and assumed that it would be acceptable.

Now that I have the points page located, I will only bid a numeric value in the future.

I'm still disappointed in the outcome last night but I'll have no choice but to get over it. I am aware that it's an accident. Knowing my dog got ran over by an accident does not make me feel any better about the loss of my dog. (over dramatization for effect). Time heals all wounds, just give me some time to grieve, I'll be okay.

What's with these ones & twos bids, man up folks and bid like you want it. It seems like a waste of time and more hassle for the "decider" just to read a nuisance bid.

I would like to see a wants list from people for Odin drops but that just seems like a pain with the numbers we have.

[Ikonic]

I have no problem with an "all" bid, just need to be able to look up points quickly. While most people can and will be honest with their bids there will also be some who will not. The person taking bids would need to be able to check the points list to verify that the bidder does actually have enough points to lot.

If we have 1 person taking bids per item it would be rather easy to check points even if he/she gets 30 bids.

The problem I had with a bid of "all" here compared to salvage is I had a larger list of names to check through. Now that I have my spreadsheet scripted to find all of it for me it'll take no time at all to deal with.

I really don't understand why people so much want bids to be done in LS chat. Is it so they can see that bids are accepted or why?

[Eotfofyl]

My 2 cents

First thing (in regards to the open bidding in ls chat) that comes to mind is, if I bid and someone outbids me, ill know i didnt win and wont wait for you to tell me i didnt win. I will pass asap. Also if everyone sees the process there will be no room for anyone to complain or explaining on your part. Hell you could dc and everything would be ok because we bid in LS.

[JG!]

LOL the bid of 1 and 2 where for trash item. Just happens apro lost his senses and went all in for a whatever item. Usually either no one bids on item and u get for 1 pt. multiple people bid 1 pt and u lot against each other or someone whoe really wants it out bids u. Crunch cheated and bid 2 pts.

I was only oppossed to all in bids cause it seemed like it would be harder for the person taking bids to figure out how much all in = . And I figured if you really wanted item wouldnt be hard to find out how many pts. you had prior to the run.

And I wanted open bids because of the time constrants mostly. You could potentially get like 50ish /tells in a 2min period. Like stated before when ebody drops ur gonna get 20+ bidders for it.. This last pool for example only had 12 bidders or so. You are a super organized person "with exception of your home" but thats alot to expect 1 person to handle. I really believe the winners need to be figured out within 3 min of pool being available. And If u dc or something then shyt will really hit the fan. Open linkshell bids will not 100% keep issues from happening but will help alot.


But like always im down for whatever the majority wants.

[Raizo]

/tell bids and the 'ebay' system don't really work for Odin due to there being 5+ possible wanted drops in a pool at once. Even if your new spreadsheet system gives you faster access, the mistake already happened once, which means it can and probably will happen again. If a system has flaws, try to fix them or make them have as little impact as possible.

Open bidding really does remedy this and also using the 3 minute time limit for all bids keeps people from playing games. If you're keeping the /tell bids simply change the rules to 'all points' bids dismissed and non-valid. People need to know their own points and be ready. No reason that can't happen before an Odin as you have an entire week to think about it.

The only downside to an open bid system is that multiple people will be bidding on the same pieces. Really though with a 36 man team, only letting 1 person have a lot chance can be extremely limiting.

I'm not sure if you guys have a mule system in place to allow Odins to be fought on a larger basis, but you'll basically need one due to these reasons. Blame SE for making another shitty system where wanted drops are so uncommon.

Edit: Dae just checking >.> you're bidding 40 points on Dryadic Abj. feet or was it another gear mislabeled? Those are 4acc feet >.> there some weird -HP swap for sam/nin/mnk im missing?

[Ikonic]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with /tell bids and the e-bay system. It works just as well for Odin as it would for anything else. The ONLY problem with it would be the speed in looking up points and marking down each bid. If we split up and have 5 people take bids (one per item) that would combat any situation where 20 people want one item.

I am leaning in favor of the bidding in LS chat for the simple fact that multiple people could verify bids and everyone would know if their bid was taken or not.

[Aleve]

I have an odd question what if there was 2 items in the pool that I wanted, like W.head & W.body?
Could I bid full points for both or would I be forced to bid half points for each? I'm guessing that my bids per pool can not exceed the total sum of my points. Are we really are allowed to bid on multiple items? Perhaps it would be best if we can only lot on 1 item per pool. This may help keep folks serious and focused.

[Ikonic]

I'd say limit 1 item per person per run. If no one wants the 2nd item then you could lot both.

[Daemonarche]

Lotting Dryadic Abj. Feet is a running joke between Crunch and I (if people haven't figured it out).

I have no purpose nor desire to lot that item.

[Nermie]

Great discussion here. Just wanted to add my 2 cents ...

I think it's most appropriate to combine the systems that are most supported; in other words make a sack/leader responsible for one item but require that all bids be done in the LS chat through an auction. This seems to work best because people can see what an item is worth and can make sure people are being honest.

So let's say e.body, a.body, p.body, Hofud drop ... bidding begins when a leader says "Start bidding" or something. At that time a member can bid on any item they want with a point value next to the item, i.e. "E.Body 50". If you want to make this easier on the leader responsible for tracking each item, make one sack monitor each item in the pool. At 3-3.5 minutes call off all bidding and say "Cast Lots" to the person(s) with highest bid.

To make this work best ...
- Bidders can raise their bid or match somebody else's bid if they have the points
- Any "all points" bids do not count (must say a number - know your points!)
- Any excessive bids (more than points obtained) are considered "lie bids" and face a penalty (-1 to -5 points, or a canceled bid)

From wiki:

Loot pool follows the following formula:
* Kings abjuration (100%)
* Body abjuration, Odin or kings (100%)
* Odin abjuration (100%)
* Random abjuration (not 100%)
* Odin Item (Spear, Sword, Helm, Body) (not 100%)