LOA

[Eotfofyl]

Last night bothered me. Mainly, i cant decide if it was it unfair for ayrea to get the drop.

It was on his wishlist though he was gone for a while.
Mesh has not been gone but at the same hasnt gotten a drop from our group nor have we fought any NM on his list (all according to mesh i didnt attempt to verify).

I believe we need to adjust the rules. Thoughts?

Extended Leave of absence = no drops for x amount of runs seems harsh.

Though losing another tank sucks even more. So we are back to damiyen tanking?...

Someones gonna have to bite the bullet and lvl pld.....

[Ikonic]

Ayrea shouldn't have gotten the drop just because he had been absent for awhile. Otherwise it was on his list. Jg threw his fit after the drop left the pool. He didn't say anything when I said for Ayrea to lot. Had he said something I could have fixed the issue right there.

We have gone after Jg's NMs, at least the ones we could handle. If he puts drops that come from NMs we can't take or NMs that require pop sets that we don't have there's no way for us to go after them.

[JG!]

My issue wasnt with ayrea getting drop its with the lotting system as a whole.... Ive mentioned prior to the event yesterday that the lotting system is unfair...1x to Ik and 1x to crunch when he lead the event. I only continued going to event because Crunch left group and you guys needed a tank...

I did not throw a fit... I just stated that the lotting system is not fair, does not work for me, and that it would be my last run. If it was a event that did not require stones then I would not care and just go to help the shell..But there is better use I can get out of my abyssea time. At 1 point in HA I went almost a whole year w/o lotting a item... All who know me know that Im always happy when ls members get items they worked for...

I also stated Im on top of list and would like the item.immediately after u said u were passing item.... You ignored it or didnt see it... And as the leader if u didnt know that It was unfair that Ayrea got the item over me..then. You failed as leader.. It was obvious to people there... from the /t i got from other members.how unfair it was....

That system is so horrid... but im sure u dont care because ur getting the stuff that you want... But there is no way a person can get 5 items before another can get 1...with = or more time doing the event... There have been people who got multi items and are no wair to be found now..but can come back and grab more items.... And if the system was a fair 1 we wouldnt even had the issue yesterday because a fair system would not allowed it too.....And as the LEADER you should manage it..be the check and balance and ensure that your members are being treated fairly...when the system fails.....

My list has changed 3x my current list has pop set nm's but didnt prior. Since we started we fought 1 nm so far that dropped a item on my list...
The 6 items i had on my list before the current change were t1/2 nm all easy to kill i made sure they were. The nm's were so hard that I duoed 3/6 nm's to get drops i wanted from my old list the other 3 items were killed w full ptys..... my old lists had thew bomblet siege bow seigneur shield vermeil bulj goetia chain and the rdm jse neck on it.... All doable by our group....

[Ikonic]

The current system is rather fair. I've changed it a few times to make it more so. If you have a problem with it come up with a solution. If you're going to be a sheep and not do anything to help fix it you really have no reason to complain.

As a leader I try to make things as fair as I can, but I'm not perfect. Sometimes I overlook the obvious. If it's pointed out to me I can address the issue and work to fix it. Our events are a group effort. As such it's the responsibility of everyone there to do his/her part and speak up when something is a problem. If you have a problem don't expect others to fix it, come up with a solution.

Your NM was targeted last night until I saw the change in what you wanted. Your new priority was not possible with our setup/pop items. I did not ignore your wanting the belt. I instead went by the priority list. Yes, Ayrea shouldn't have gotten it since he just came back, but YOU should have spoken up at that time instead of waiting for the pool to drop.

[JG!]

When I mentioned the issue i had w current system I came up with a solution....Use the lotting system we already have been using for the last 3-4 years..Every event we do is a reward for your participation type lotting system... why is abyssea different??..... and when Item dropped and you passed... I said I am a top of list and would like item.... What else should I have said???
And of course u think system is fair... How many items have u gotten so far???

After pool cleared is when I said... system does not work for me....

[Ikonic]

The HANMLS system works because of the specific targets we have. How would we pick targets in Abyssea being there's so many of them?

With our current system if the item is not your priority item it means nothing with you being on top. Drops go based on priority items, then go to lot based on ranking. Since Ayrea was the only other one there with it has his priority item I had him lot.

[JG!]

what were our target yesterday???? did we hit our target???
were targets selected before entering zone???

Yes to all of the above.....

Abyssea nm's are popped or have 30-60 min timer ftw...Its easier to target nm's in abyssea then indoor sea nm's by far...

And idk why that matters u go to event get points... item drops person w highest points who wants item bids/lots/whatever...
when we fight a nm there is usually multi items it drops.....

[Tarage]

I need some clarification myself. According to spreadsheet my last run is listed as 9/11. However I have shown up two other times, albeit I haven't been able to stay the entire time. Does only coming part of the time mean I am ineligible to move up the sheet? Do partial runs not count for anything? Because if they don't I need to find another group, because as Mesh said, "I can find better places to use my stones".

I'd like to agree with Eot and Mesh that the current system is horrible. I sat at the top of the list for quite some time. The current list favors NMs that are easy, and so people who have a bunch of easy of accessible NMs get their stuff quickly, while those of us who need more effort are left sitting on our hands.

You might like the system, but it sucks. Almost all of us hate it. Why are you going to continue using a system no one but yourself likes?

[Ikonic]

If you don't show for most of the run (60 min+ or so) it doesn't count. There's no penalty until you've missed a full month. No one moves up the list, people only move down it after getting a drop.

I've heard of only one person who hates the current system. I've heard of a few who have some qualms with it, but those have been fixed. If you really hate it so much come up with a better one. Come up with one that is fair to everyone, works for all the zones, and picks NMs that we can handle and that are wanted by members. If you can do that then get back to me.

People should know exactly how the system is set up. If you choose NMs that are too difficult for us to do that's your own fault. While I do want to do these and try to target them for our joint runs with our limited numbers it's not going to always be possible. People who understand this and choose priorities accordingly will get what they want much quicker than those who do not.

[JG!]

My old lists had thew bomblet siege bow seigneur shield vermeil bulj goetia chain and the rdm jse neck on it.... All doable by our group....

Changed to current list few hours before last run... That was cut and paiste btw..... which 1 of those items were hard to get???

I remember 1 run when we fought the dagger nm... I tanked mob dropped dagger person at bottom of list who had gotten 3 items already took dagger... Cause it was on his list again... He had been to 3/??? runs total... and hasnt been around since....
Tar was at top of list at that time we wiped to his mob.. and never targeted a mob on my list.... I was second on list...awsome system....

Here is new system... Go down list you want item that dropped yes/no.. next person you want item yes/no... and so on..If you get item you drop down to bottom of list.. You miss a run you drop down 1 slot on list....That way your rewarded for your contribution...

To show how fair the system is how about you post the names of people and items they have recieved so far in the group....

But like u said no one else dislikes the system so... It doesnt matter if I dont like it...since im done w/ it can just leave it as is...
But what you think happened to all the other people who were in the group to start with???? Should think about that......

[Ikonic]

We did and were going to target those items. I was going to target shield for you this last run, but then I saw you changed your priorities. The one you changed to for this zone was not possible with the group we had. We had targeted many of those items many times in the past, the reason you didn't get the drops is because you weren't top on priority for those items or you didn't attend those runs.

You keep saying we should go down the list and have the top people get to lot. What's the point in even having a list then? How would we choose what NMs to target? There's no possible way that we can target every mob in a zone each run so how do we pick which to go after and which to skip? You've yet to answer that question.

As to the people who left. I really don't care about them one way or the other. If they left without a word (which every one but you have done) then I don't care about them at all. If they bothered to say something or speak up about why they were thinking about leaving then I could have addressed the issue, but instead they just left.

[JG!]

If my selections were to hard... then our targets should have been for Dam,Zarris, and Yanx??? w us spending the most time going after Dam's mob. (I dont remember fighting a crab in the zone the mob that drops dam item for that zone).. Why then were we fighting the ufo a mob w drops for people at bottom of list??? And didnt even attempt a mob for dam????
Every run you select targets that you think would be good for shell prior to run??? why would that change?? Or how about you ask people at top of list which items would they like to target and go from there????
Point of list is to priortize from people who have not gotten anything recently to the ones who are loot whoring.....are you able to post people and drops they have obtained... Whats the point of your list if people on bottom regularly are obtaining drops over people on top? Ex. last run while i was there 3 drops went to people who were at the bottom of the list......which is the case every run I go to....

Your right for some of the items I was in middle of list but not all...
My ex. above shows that has not always been the case...

An unanswered ???
1. Why arent we using a point system in Abyssea when every other event we do...
2.When Item dropped, I said I am on top of list and would like the item.. What else should I have said?
3.Are you able to post drops by person for all to see?? I think if people see the trend they will understand where im coming from...

[Ikonic]

Dam and Zar had nothing listed for LTP before the run. We did go after Brooder for Yan. We fought the UFO because it was on people's lists after the top people's NMs that we did fight, but were not back up due to repop time.

Part of the reason I like the lists is because I can look at them and decide goals w/o asking people every run. Another option we can do is have the lists still as a guideline, but have a points system. I can target NMs that are on a majority of the lists or on the top X (say 3) people's lists for the goals of the day. Lots would then go based on top points with each drop costing a set value or having a bid-based system. We could even go so far as each drop wipes all the points of the lotter such that they go to the end.

I can't post previous drops because I didn't keep track of them. One reason a lot of people at the bottom of the list are getting drops over and again is because the drops they have listed are dropping. It doesn't matter if you're #1 priority if your drop doesn't drop.

Crunch started Abyssea with a version of our current system. When he left I took over and modified it as I could to make it more fair. If we want to go to a points-based system and can come up with a fair way to do so I have no problem with that.

Your questions:
1. I took over C's system instead of creating a new point-based one. We can still change.
2. You didn't have item on your priority list. Others did. I go by the lists. It was a mistake on my part to let Ay lot since he was inactive, but others should have spoken up.
3. I'm not able to post drops as I didn't keep track of them, but I do see the trend you're talking about.

[Ayrea]

Here are my thoughts on what I think we should change the system to...

Everyone would pick an ordered list of 5-10 items that they want from abyssea. These items would be across all of the abyssea zones. For example, we could have:

Ayrea	Ikonic	Jglluamesh
1. Danzo sune-ate	1. Anguinus Belt	1. Ocelot Gloves
2. Goading Belt	2. Bullwhip Belt	2. Danzo sune-ate
3. Ocelot Gloves	3. Ocelot Gloves	3. Bullwhip Belt

etc.

Items in the priority list would have a static point cost, say 50-100 points. Zone goals could be relatively easily determined based on looking at the top priorities for the zone we're targetting.

Now let's say we kill Eve, and ocelot gloves drops. It's highest on JG's list, so he gets them uncontested, and pays the static point cost. The list now becomes:

Ayrea	Ikonic	Jglluamesh
1. Danzo sune-ate	1. Anguinus Belt

[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2. Goading Belt[/td][td]2. Bullwhip Belt[/td][td]2. Danzo sune-ate[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3. Ocelot Gloves[/td][td]3. Ocelot Gloves[/td][td]3. Bullwhip Belt[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Next kill, danzo sune-ate drops. It's highest on Ay's list, so the list becomes:

Ayrea	Ikonic	Jglluamesh
	1. Anguinus Belt
2. Goading Belt	2. Bullwhip Belt	2. Danzo sune-ate
3. Ocelot Gloves	3. Ocelot Gloves	3. Bullwhip Belt

Next kill, ocelot gloves drop. They're on ay/ik's list at #3. Even though ay doesn't have a #1 anymore, his #3 lot is still #3 in terms of priority. Ik/ay would either random for it, or bid for it...either way, let's say ik wins, the list becomes:

Ayrea	Ikonic	Jglluamesh
	1. Anguinus Belt
2. Goading Belt	2. Bullwhip Belt	2. Danzo sune-ate
3. Ocelot Gloves		3. Bullwhip Belt

And so on. Items not on anyones list would go open bidding, like any normal HA event.

As long as lists are relatively immutable (changing only every 3-6 months at a minimum), this system tends to work fairly well. It lets everyone establish a clear priority for items they want, without requiring you to move to dead last priority overall after a drop like the current system.

[JG!]

How is participation accounted for?? Like a person who comes 4/10 events vs a person who comes to 10/10 events? Say U and I both have Danzo #1. and they drop on run # 10? Do you both lot? or the person w 10/10 participation just lot? and what is the cut off??