Should a RDM Melee?

[Ikonic]

There's a thread posted on the AK forums (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=36&mid=10981258396619636) that I've replied to ('cause it annoys me how stupid people are). Anyways, the thread is debating (somewhat) if a RDM should melee. I figured I'd post this here in case any of the LS RDMs would like to reply to it. I know that at least Star, Timm, and Sal are all melee'ing RDMs and I'd not have it any other way. Well, feel free to reply to the thread if you have such a desire. If not on AK than at least if you'd let the LS know your opinion of it here, that'd be swell. Thanks.#nosmileys

[Slayerz]

good post ik, that thread was nice, shut them up good lol

[Stargasior]

This discusion is soo annoying but ppl have never told me not to melee in a party. In fact some WHM's have told me they WANT me to melee. At lvl 60 I melee half the time mainly to keep my sword skill capped or near capped. At first I don't melee to see if the party is good enough that I don't have to watch it like a little kid. If everything runs smoothly, I will ask the party if it's ok. If I get the ok, then I'll start meleeing.

Becuase of meleeing I don't actually heal much. This is the reason I have yet to buy a Dark Staff. If I run low on MP and the other mages and PLD are ready for the next mob I will quickly Convert and heal myslef. Within seconds the party is killing the next mob. That is what Convert is for anyway.

When I am meleeing I am really doing three things at once(besides meleeing).

1.Checking the chat log to see if the mob has buffed itself. I almost always melee if I know that the mob does not buff itself. I also see if my de-buffs have worn off.
2. Wacthing the chat log and mp bars to see if refresh is gone.
3. Watching the hp bars in case something bad happens and the main healer needs support.

Thats my little window of what I do in an EXP party.

[Timm]

Exactly what I do Star. As far as meleeing, it doesn't take anything to melee. The only thing is staying close to the mob which you don't worry about when casting, but can be picked up again after the cast. With your en-spell you do deal damage, may not be much, but everything counts.

[Striveldt]

we've spent plenty of time in parties trying to set up skill chains that end up hitting the mob for under 100 damage. with a rdm meleeing, much more damage than that would be done. Sure i'm not high enough where refresh is available, but as long as the job is done, why not. I haven't run into many melee rdms, but i wish there were more. i mean, i melee and cast, why can't you?!? ^^

[Stargasior]

Also if you don't melee you can not be an effective soloer with RDM. Jennn was telling me she never meleed and my 27 RDM's sword skill was only 10-15 levels lower than her 60 something(), rdm. o.O

You also won't get the WS's unless you have a prior melee job. Skil up parties can be fun, but I think they can get boring very fast. I rather get the skill up and leveling done at the same time.

[Leesc]

A real RDM should use sidewinder! j/k


I think rdm/rng pre-nerf maybe fun. Now, accuracy of my Sidewinder is 50% only -_-

[Stargasior]

Is that your RDM Leesc? *drool*

Let's compare with my old RDM.



Hmmm. nah you win.

[kelowelo]

way back in 2004 the topic of RDM melee during a pt, it seemed that ppl expected you to melee as well as keep up on your enfeebs/enhancing. Today is a new era with the near east and new mobs. But more to my point... I have tried to melee when I feel I can keep up with the enf/enh. The colibri can be a great time to melee... watch that magic. But I find myself refreshing 4/6 ppl with hasting. And that is if there is a whm in the pt, usually I am the main healer. So I don't find myself melee too much, nor do I find I am able to keep up with my elemental skill (until I was able to get caught up with beseiged). Anyway, melee should not be ignored as a RDM, that is why we can use daggers and swords. anyway, just wanted to add my 2 gill.

can i get chocobo parking validation... ?

[Aleve]

I chose hume and rdm for a specific reason. Red mage is a very versatile job, we can melee, heal, nuke, party or solo. To me, rdm is the median of jobs that can adjust style and gear to match the situation. I love to solo both melee and sleep/nuke. Everyone is talking about the dmg that a rdm can produce in xp pt via melee. What no one seems to be mentioning is the nuke dmg in xp. As much as I love to get my sword wet, I find it very gratifying to nuke and MB. If you wish to do damage in xp pt, there are 2 options, melee or nuke. Hands down (depending on mob) Nuking as rdm will do much more dmg than melee. So to all those who claim to melee in xp and never med, it's obvious that that they are not nuking and not fully realizing their dmg potential. If I have a choice to melee or nuke in xp, I choose nuke. If I can do both, sure but I will be needing to med semi-frequently. I believe that melee rdm does have it's place, and oh man do I love it but the place is not in xp party except for maybe those damn Colibri. Red Mage in Blood gear FTW!

[Mnementh]

I reserve all of my RDM melee argument for Alla forums. I'll post all of the good threads I see on it in here. There is no short version answer to this question.

The real answer is "shit is situational." A RDM should absolutely NOT melee if they are the only RDM in the party, and they should NOT melee if they don't have the gear or the understanding that a real melee does about meleeing.

In modern-day parties, there is no place for melee in a TP burn unless you have specifically built the party for it yourself (as in have another healer taking the brunt of the duties); and you better have gear like this:
ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?144315

True RDM melee will have about as much output as a Blu or a Dnc and take the same role in the party pretty much. People just don't build parties around that concept.

Short version is: leave it to the experts.

And Aleve, a nuking RDM will not have even CLOSE to the MP to generate the overall damage nuking that a properly geared rdm will do in the proper party slot meleeing. In the end though, situation dictates damage potential.

[Mnementh]

Someone posting that we should not be advocating or suggesting RDM can melee based on some screenshots of posers in lolgear.

Thread trying to compile good information about "requirements" for RDM melee. Intentions are good. Good posters in the thread.

[JG!]

LOL meleee RDM..... we can do it but why?(not counting solo work) I wanted too melee so I lvled War! I wanted too nuke so I lvled Blm! I wanted too tank so I lvled Nin! Back in the day before new areas we could kinda do a little of everything... I was a rdm/war in xp ptys till lvl 51ish (back in the day u got let into ptys with any sub as rdm lol) and tanked meleed healed buffed and debuffed all the way. I didnt have a mage sub job all the way lvled till 60. After 60 I was mage only hanging back with the ...A old school perfect party whm-rdm-smn, rdm-brd, blm-smn, tank, dd, dd. A well rounded pty with sc and mb As a rdm u are blessed and cursed with the ability to do alot of things cool but not great...(exception enfeebling). So u can do all the things that u guys are talking about and with alot of effort and gil spent on gear u can do them ok but a decked out rdm cant compare to a avg geared war or blm in what they do melee and nuke dmg wise same as healing wise as a whm for that matter.(this midget whm cure4 me for 915 hp or something crazy like that yesterday) On a side note TOAU has screwed RDM's and their skill sets (one of the reasons why I and most rdm's refuse to xp in toau...) idk wth they call that style of play for rdm..... thats why alot of newer rdm's are so confused of their roles in any other situation other than a merit tp burn pty. and most of their skills are so underlevled....

[Mnementh]

The big misunderstanding is that people think RDM are trying to compete with top tier melee. This is not really the case.

Here is one of my post from the thread I linked. You really should read the discussion.

I really like where melee discussions in this forum are going actually. We have come a long long way toward actually finding acceptable applications of melee as rdms. It kind of actually makes me want to merit using the class again. Smiley: laugh

The concept of a Hybrid Role of casting and DD was pretty alien to me and its a little hard to grasp when you have leveled int he past in this game where the only real defined hybrid role was RDM and it was defined as support/healer or red MAGE etc.. I think SE built other hybrids into the game (in a support sense). Pld and Nin I believe were both meant to serve as hybrids, and maybe drg/mage as well but they were not taken as such.

But this was in 2003 and 2004 when we all fought IT++ and sushi and merits did not exist. There was no way in hell a RDM was ever going to hit the mob they were put in front of. Some people like Airspirit argued the viability and many others who have come and gone did as well. But I don't think they ever went about explaining it or applying it like Starfox has.

We have moved very far since then, but among most of the very seasoned, hardcore and bitter endgamers (KI/BG) there is just no changing their mentality.

I have never tended to work well with other RDMs personally and I think many of us are the same way. Its a very "do everything yourself" role. Thats why so many of us solo things we really should not be having to solo. So naturally sharing our duties with another person of our job is unfathomable to most of us. (Because those who heal naturally usually want to be the one meleeing.) As a result of the introduction of other melee hybrid support jobs like Cor, Blu and Dnc I think the population of RDMs that really wanted to play a support melee hybrid and not a support healer hybrid has dwindled. Many of us who are left playing the job enjoy the role as it is, or are dedicated enough to be open to a change and will adapt to having fun as long as we are playing the job.

I think Starfox's methods will eventually become more accepted by those who frequent this forum. But its a far cry to expect the majority of the population to do the same. But to me it is perfectly clear that if a cor or blu or a dnc or a pld or a drg can play a dd/support role, then so can we.

Thats why I appreciate the effort to try to dictate some standards. But it is going to be extremely hard, since the knowledge of "what to do when" is based more on situation and experience than it is for melee issues like knowing what to use to hit x mob for y percentage acc z amount of the time.

A RDM's role as a melee in a merit party is the same as that of a pld or blu or dnc or cor. Significant melee damage while removing some of the load off of the main healer by backup curing, covering dia/ haste etc.

[alkemaira]

I love my 75 RDM and i couldnt put it any other way.. A melee RDM is a good RDM.